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He Said, She Said: Draft Beer
Posted by Foobooz on February 26th, 2009
The comments in our Happy Nights at Table 31 post sparked an interesting IM debate this morning at Foobooz World Headquarters.
Tonyjlive is disappointed that a high-end restaurant like Table 31 is offering Coors Light on draft. Henry replies, that’s what he enjoys and what’s wrong with that?
We’d like to hear what you think.
foobooz: Tonyjlive is sighing that Table 31 serves Coors Light on draft.foobooz: Henry retorts that he likes to drink Coors Light at restaurant’s of Table 31′s caliber.foobooz: My feeling is, if you want to offer such swill, offer it in a bottle. Your draft list, like your wine list defines your restaurant or bar.kirsthenri: I think it says more about the restaurant’s clientelekirsthenri: that is what comcasticans want to drinkkirsthenri: sad but truekirsthenri: a good restaurant pleases its customers
kirsthenri: knows its audiencekirsthenri: that’s why Grey Lodge serves swill toofoobooz: and is defined by it. You say the Grey Lodge is a beer bar where locals drinking Coors Light also feel at home.kirsthenri: yes, but his top moneymakerkirsthenri: he told me when I interviewed himkirsthenri: was Miller Litekirsthenri: or something like thatkirsthenri: it’s a business decisionkirsthenri: I think if they don’t offer other options, then it’s worth smacking them downkirsthenri: you don’t have to drink coors lite therefoobooz: but do you think there’s any validity to my theory that if you want swill, drink it from the bottle. Your drafts are what define you?kirsthenri: nokirsthenri: I think drafts are bigger moneymakers than bottleskirsthenri: bigger profit marginkirsthenri: I think in theoretical lala land, your theory is not a bad onefoobooz: right.kirsthenri: but in reality, in these economic timeskirsthenri: not so muchkirsthenri: also, I really don’t think you can force people to not drink coors litkirsthenri: litekirsthenri: I don’t have to drink itfoobooz: Yeah but when you’re offering quality food prepared well for a discount but then only offer cheap swill beer discounted you’ve told me you don’t think the beer matters.kirsthenri: well, that’s a good pointkirsthenri: but the cheap swill beer is probably subsidizing the cheaper foodkirsthenri: so you can’t have both at happy hourfoobooz: hmmmmkirsthenri: sorry, I’m going to have to go with the proletariat on this one
So what do you think Foobooz readers, does it matter that Table 31 serves Coors Light on draft?
February 26th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
I agree with Kirsten, and she makes a good point in re: The Grey Lodge. While it is known as a draft beer mecca, I constantly see people drinking Miller Lite from the bottle when I’m there. BudMillerCoors are the go-to beers for a lot of people and I often hear bartenders telling people that “this beer is probably the closest we have to Bud.”
So yes, if your customers want to drink Coors light draft, then it would be silly not to serve it, even at a high-end steakhouse like Table 31.
February 26th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Sorry, it was foobooz that made the point about the Grey Lodge. Still a good one.
February 26th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
I’ve gotten flack from beer snobs for having the likes of PBR or Lions Head on draft. My response is always the same: It might not be to your liking but that doesn’t mean other people won’t drink it. I would rather cater to all tastes.
Beer is social and fun and should not be subject to snobbery.
If it irks people so much then perhaps they should open a bar/restaurant and serve only the beer they deem worthy. Otherwise shut up.
February 26th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
If you drink awful beer I’m probably going to make fun of you, but that’s about it. Bars stock pale macro lager because it sells well; I can’t really fault them for it.
I glanced at Table 31′s website and it seems like all they have on draft is Stella and Coors. (Somebody correct me if I’m wrong.) I think Art is right in that sense, though: If you only offer those two drafts, why would I ever go to Happy Hour there?
Oh, whatever, I was never going to Table 31 anyway.
February 26th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
I guess “beer snobs” is one way to describe people that know about and enjoy beer. But if somebody that makes their own bread saw someone eating a Wonderbread PB&J and told that person “hey, it’s so much better on this other bread,” I think that you’d just say that one of those people knows and cares more about bread than the other person. You probably wouldn’t call them a bread snob.
Beer has suffered, like bread, from the process of industrialization. Smaller and artisanal producers were forced out of business by the big guys who found ways to do things more cheaply. The flavor components suffered along the way.
We’re now lucky enough to be able to get wonderful beers from around the world. We can also get wonderful local beers. We can even make our own.
If I were to be lucky enough to be able to open up a bar or restaurant I would consider it part of my job to carry the highest quality food and drink I could. I personally wouldn’t carry Coors Lite. I personally think it’s tasteless garbage. But Table 31 can do what they will; they’re trying to make money. I’ll just be heading somewhere else to try a new beer with my beer snob friends.
February 26th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
boy, that was a pretty pedantic and annoying response. :\
February 26th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
While Kristen’s argument is a good one, it loses credibility with the ‘in these economic times’ statement. Are these bars, both real and hypothetical, only now adding Coors Light to the draught list because of the recession? Are people not buying Sly Fox Lager because the economy makes it so they can’t trust small brewers? Is it too much to ask for a moratorium on the ‘in this economy’ excuse for things that aren’t at all affected by the present economic climate?
February 26th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
I think as a new spot opening in Philadelphia 2009, it would almost be stupid not to offer miller/coors/bud. It’s a Miller Lite town after all. 95% of the nightlife is drinking it. And I also find the Monk’s/Eulogy approach of “we’re charging $5″ to be annoying. I like good beer, but at some points you need to put down the 10% abbey triple and drink something that won’t put you in the gutter.
I have no clue about this specific spot, I don’t get to eat in high rises.
February 26th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
I will add that, since draft coors lite seems to be the only draft beer covered by Table 31′s happy hour (with bottled miller and peroni being the other $3 happy hour options), the restaurant is in fact establishing its identity through its beer list and that identity is apparently pretty douchey.
February 26th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
I think offering the swill in bottles is the best way to keep both groups happy. The craft beer drinkers will want draft usually and most macro drinkers don’t mind drinking from the bottle as long as the price is right, since it tastes pretty much the same whether from bottle or draft.
February 26th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Its a question of value.
For table 31, they probably make a 400 to 500 percent mark up on those drafts of CL. They are making money there….paying their rent. Great. My critique is, do you want to cater to the lowest common denominator. When someone asks for a CL, say I’m sorry we don’t carry that, but we do carry Yards Brawler in bottles or Sly Fox Pikeland Pils on Draught…broaden horizons a bit.
As for those who order a CL at Table 31…you can get CL anywhere, why not be more “adventurous” in flavor. You can’t be happy getting charged, I’m guessing, $5-6 for a CL when you can get it for $3 on draft at your local shot and a beer spot. Where’s the value there?
February 26th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
Even Public House around the corner does a Blue Moon happy hour…definitely a step up for CL. i think its a sign that T31 is out of touch with their cilentle or desperate to draw a happy hour
February 26th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
95% of shot n’ beer holes, Old City and Rittenhouse-esque, South Jersey-leeching nightlife joints that are flooded with inane house/techno, faux hip hop & frat rock indeed sell oceans of Miller Lite and similar jazz. JOSH, you’re right there. As for the places supporting ever-growing beer culture, some deity bless them that they upcharge for industrialized brews! The craft beers are there for an experience. Think “farmer vs. the buisnessman”. Maybe some of these local artisans should craft small batches of economically-priced lite beers to see how they compete locally. Until then, Sly Fox cans are reasonably priced throughout Brotherly Love and are lightyears better than the industrialized fermented water, “goddammit anyway”
February 26th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
oh yeah, i agree with Tonyjive, but in the end…its the choice of Scarduzio & crew. maybe if BrassPerr only sold Coors from day 1……
February 26th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Josh – I dont know how you can assess that “95% of the nightlife is drinking it” (Miller Lite).
And the debate isnt to offer it or not, but whether CL deserves its spot as one of the 2 drafts offered at T31.
Why would you go to Monk’s/Eulogy and order a Miller/Coors/Bud??? Ill go ahead and say 100% of their clientele go there to NOT drink them.
T31 offering CL draft and Le Bec-Fin doing cheeseburger specials… Times must be tough for Mr. Perrier.
February 26th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
In this economy many places are trying to simply stay open. Stop for second and think about what it means to have to make a tough choice to help save what you worked your ass off for.
Its easy to sell people on craft beer when there is a no bull crap, no snob approach to how the beer is sold.
As for bread? I’ve got a great recipe for beer bread. So you can have your snobbery and eat it too.
February 26th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
Well, If there is one thing I can’t do, I can’t knock the hustle. I realize everyone needs to make a dollar. I was just wondering why a top notch destination would have such a beer on draft and why would they advertise $3 Coors Light specials. Is that really the target demographic they’re after? But, what the hell do I know.
February 26th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
Are we arguing over whether it’s good that T31 serves draft Coors Light, or that they serve it at Happy Hour prices to the exclusion of other, presumed “better” beers?
I’d say that if they don’t serve anything but mainstream lagers and light lagers on their draft system in this town, they’re stupid. Sorry to be so blunt, but it’s a matter of money, profit. Philadelphians like craft beer: fact, and if you ignore it, you’re losing money…in this economy.
On the other hand, if it’s that they’re only doing CL during happy hour, well, hell, they know their business, I guess. Besides, maybe it brings in folks with friends who buy the full price stuff.
As to defining the place…I’d say the steaks define the place. Beer choice doesn’t define a steakhouse. It’s a disappointment if they don’t have more beer choice, but it’s not defining.
February 26th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Oh, and Josh? There’s a hell of a lot more <5% beers out there than BMC/Light! Kenzinger, for instance, at 4.5%, or Guinness at 4.2%. Choice is choice. You wouldn’t expect a place like T31 to have five wines, all the same, as their entire list, right?
February 26th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
Table 31 will be offering lakefront ipa on tap during their Happy Nights staring Feb. 27 to satisfy all of our beer lovers….I thank You!!!
February 27th, 2009 at 3:26 am
All of us are right, you know!
yes CL is garbage! yes we’re a beer town who loves our craft beers! but truth be told people go to bars/ restaurants to enjoy themselves…. miller light drinking folks, CL drinking folks… yards, Hercule stout, etc… As a business you provide your guest with what they drink in addition broadening their horizon point blank.
So if you can find a middle ground, hey might you might have some happy variety of beer drinkers on your hand!!! Can’t wait to come to T31 tomorrow $3 CL w/ my $ 10 valet!! ( actually not interested, goodnight!)
February 27th, 2009 at 11:09 am
@Heather
Hooray! Call me. I’ll bring the beer (and the snobbery)
February 27th, 2009 at 11:10 am
@Thomas
Hooray! Call me. I’ll bring the snobbery.
February 27th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Once again Coors Lite pays to be in a highly visible account! All these big brands spend money to be in major restaurants. Absolut, Stoli, Ketel One, Grey Goose, Jack Daniel’s ,SOCO and the list goes on. They use the word “support” instead of paying for business. It’s all illegal and the state turns a blind eye to it ( because their board members get kickbacks too-lavish trips to various wine countries, dinners paid for, unlimited amex gift cards). It’s done everyday on the street in the beverage industry. Trust me, they would pour Natural Light if they came up with “support dollars” for the restaurant. Case closed!
February 28th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
Why r we talking about CL and Table 31 anyways???? Are we that bored with our lives? T31 is in big trouble. The truth is that it is a ruderless Titanic. Blame goes to Comcast for horrible interior design and architecture. Then the rest goes to Managers and the old Guard mentality. I hear perrier is dying to get his name dis- associated with this place.
for the record CL is like a microwaved Mc Donald’s hamburger
Good local beer is like Kobe Beef
NO comparison!